Taxes, Taxes Everywhere...

October 29, 2016

The Largest Tax Increases EVER are on the Ballot for November 8th. Taxes, Taxes Everywhere - 

Park Bond


$40 million park bond, with a potential for 6% interest (per resolution), could cost taxpayers $85 million by the time it is paid off in 30 years. Property owners tax bill could go up approximately an additional $120 - $200 per year, in addition to the plethora of taxes from Fulton County and Johns Creek.

2 of the 3 pockets parks are located near new High-Density Developments. These parks are needed to provide the amenities that the developers did not include and instead used the land to squeeze in more housing.

The Bell/Boles Roundabout Pocket Park include plans for toilets which could add up to over $500k.

The TPA Retentions Lakes the City purchased have ambitious plans such as another amphitheater and wedding chapel but lack parking.

City Staff stated they plan to enter into agreements with adjacent property owners to utilize parking spaces. This may be a temporary solution, as the park plan consultant anticipates the adjacent properties to be redeveloped and to generate significant tax revenue. The TPA park plan appears to replicate the District from last year, which was negatively received.

Cauley Creek Sewer Reclamation Plant is the most ambivalent park within the plan. Millions of dollars are sought to develop the leach fields into soccer and Cricket fields.

With the strong potential and push from Mayor Bodker to reopen the Sewer plant, do you want your children playing near a sewage processing plant, that converts the waste into fertilizer?

Shakerag residents have been vocal for a passive park. Instead, have the prospect of an active park on a Bell Rd, that lacks the road capacity for large amount traffic as a destination.

If the Park Bond passes, it is effectively cementing these plans and there is little wiggle room to alter them, as this is what is promised to the taxpayers.

If the Park Bond is denied by the voters, the Council could go back and change the plans. Build the parks within the current budget and at a pace, we can afford.

T-SPLOST (Transportation Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax


TSPLOST is a ballot to increase the sales tax, so with every purchase, you will pay more, much more.

This money will be funneled to Fulton County, who will take a portion, along with the State. Then it will be divided up based on population. Then sent to the Cities to spend on road construction, sidewalks, etc. In the end, the consultants and outsourcing will take their portion.

Taxes will be paid 5 years but won't be concluded for 7 to 12 years.

It is estimated 38%-62% will be spent on congestion relief.

Much of the projects are already in the pipeline with funds from GDOT, State & Federal to cover the costs.

TSPLOST purpose is to have residents pay for projects that should be paid for by existing taxes. Taxpayers are essentially paying for the same thing twice.

With Johns Creek being the wealthiest City in the State, residents here will be spending more money on the taxes than receiving back.

Certainly, East Point will not be sending tax dollars to Johns Creek, rather vice-versa.

Taxes, Taxes Everywhere!

Source: Fulton County


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40 comments on “Taxes, Taxes Everywhere...”

  1. The signs you see and the mailers you get promoting Tsplost are not from citizens. They are from big business interests that have a lot to gain financially from its passage. Our neighbors are the folks behind the NO TSPLOST signs.

  2. Actually, Johns Creek businesses collect less in sales tax than the city will receive in TSPLOST. Net gain for Johns Creek.

    1. Doug, your are intentionally misleading. Of course Johns Creek businesses collect less. It is clearly established that Johns Creek has a smaller business base. This tax has nothing to do with Johns Creek businesses.

      This is a sales tax which hits every resident whenever and wherever they spend money in Fulton County, from their power bill to their phone bill to their cable bill to their Amazon purchases, and whatever else they purchase in Fulton County

      Johns Creek residents will spend more and pay more in sales tax than other residents of Fulton County on average.

      Also, for lower income communities, more of their purchases % wise will be on tax free items, such as food.

      Therefore the residents of Johns Creek will pay more in sales tax than most other Fulton County residents.

      And the formula to divide the tax receipts is based on population, and that guarantees that Johns Creek residents will get less.

      This is a bad deal for Johns Creek. It's even worse for Sandy Springs. Milton is a loser too.

      1. While TSPLOST isn't perfect and Johns Creek will get less back than they put in proportionally, what is the Alternative? If TSPLOST in 2012 passed metro Atlanta would be closer to alleviating some of the traffic issues. The areas in GA that it passed are already seeing improvements. Plus it creates construction jobs. You can't outsource construction jobs to India or China. Old Milton Parkway between North Point Parkway and Kimball bridge was an approved widening project on the 2012 list that would help JC residents to access GA 400 quicker. 141 in Gwinnett county was also on that list which would have given us quicker access to 285. We send our 18 year old kids to get their faces blown off rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan. We spend trillions rebuilding their nations, but back home squabble over our neighbors getting a larger piece of the pie. I am okay if another American city gets a disproportionate amount more. It's not perfect but they are our neighbors. What is the Alternative? Just saying no and dramatizing a few pennies will not make the traffic issues disappear. I've had coworkers who now look at Alpharetta and the proximity to GA 400 when they look for homes and they cite traffic as the reason. Schools are good enough in both cities, but if congestion starts effecting our home values, we will lose a lot more in resale value and time loss when we sit idle in traffic than the pennies increase that people are against. What is plan B when TSPLOST fails ?

        1. Hiding behind "anonymous" reduces your credibility - those with courage of their convictions (Moosa & Bradberry) will sign their comments - what are you hiding?

        2. During the mayors town hall the other night he said it could take up to 12 years to complete all the projects on Tier 1 and Tier 2 list, yet the TSPLOST tax will collect all the dollars for these projects in five years. Secondly, almost all the projects on Tier 1 and Tier 2 will qualify for state funding, once these projects receive state funding Johns Creek will only be financially responsible for 20% of the total cost of these projects once the state funding comes. This means that instead of funding 100 percent of the projects as is listed on the information coming from the city, only 20 percent of the tax money will go towards these projects which means a majority of this tax money will flow down to Tier 3 items, few of which have anything to do with congestion relief or road construction. Now, if it takes up to 12 years to complete these projects and a majority of these projects receive state funding it means in order to get these projects completed using city dollars would only require approximately 16 million dollars total over the twelve years, which works out to only requiring the city to budget about 1.4 million dollars a year for the next 12 years to complete these projects. This is an easy investment for the city to make using existing funding. Please do not fall for the sky is falling and TSPLOST is the only way to construct these projects. This is a complete bait and switch by the government in order to install a new tax that will never go away (think ESPLOST). VOTE NO on TSPLOST!!!

        3. Hey, anonymous person I assume is from Bolivia trolling this site, the alternative is to fund these projects out of current funds. It takes a little longer, but there isn't the windfall that MUST be spent. It can be handled much better by the council to deal with as needs arise.

  3. Allocation of TSPLOST money has the perverse incentive of encouraging population growth. So while we all suffer from the traffic results of continued high density housing approvals in Johns Creek, we're being told we should support TSPLOST to relieve congestion. Perhaps we should stop approving rampant development BEFORE we approve additional development that is driving our community to increasing gridlock.

    1. Why can't we do both.....stop high density housing and accelerate our infrastructure improvements thru TSplost ?

  4. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Dear Lord I might have to pay an extra seven pennies on my next ten dollar pizza. Who are these people who live so close to the edge that miniscule amounts have them reacting like it's Armageddon. We don't live in a third world country where basic essentials consume all of our pay. Just how in America can people be so broke?

    1. Watch the demographic date presented by the city at the CLUP meeting:

      Incomes are down in Johns Creek.

      Tax revenues are up and climbing.

      If you cannot see the issue, that is on you.

      When the lower and middle classes of your community are squeezed out, it will be your high end homes that fall in value.

      And in fact, the value of residential real estate per resident in Johns Creek has been falling.

      The residential real estate value has not been rising in Johns Creek especially on a per capita basis.

      These are trends that people should be paying attention to.

    2. I don't know if you live in a 3rd world country or not. You're anonymous and could be living in the Sudan for all I know and trolling this site. And yes, it's a few cents on your pizza and maybe $500 on your next car, as well as more on everything else you buy.

  5. Two years ago the state of Georgia passed a nearly $Billion$ fuel tax increase to fund road infrastructure. Well...We're into the 3rd year of that tax increase...has ANYBODY see ANY BENEFIT resulting from this tax increase (Old Alabama/Medlock funded before)?

    The City of Johns Creek has/had plans for reserves to address EACH and EVERY one of the congestion points defined in TSPLOST.

    1) Why would the state, with their new-found $Billions$ in new taxes, bother to spend taxes collected in Johns Creek for Johns Creek needs when we chose to raise taxes on ourselves to improve congestion---even on State roads?

    2) Why are the VAST majority of the projects---ESPECIALLY Tier 1 projects--based in the north end of Johns Creek--- up near where the mayor lives? Aren't the citizens of SOUTH Johns Creek getting SCREWED by both the State AND City of JC and swamped by North/South traffic? Hello?

    3) Most of our traffic problems involve volume moving North to South (and visa versa),and getting across the river? WELL---If TSPLOST is supposed to be for congestion relief, WHERE are the improvements crossing rivers and moving North/South? HELLO?

    4) Analysis has been done that PROVES the project list for Johns Creek is in the wrong order and NOT the most impactful--that the more economic benefit could be derived by another priority. That prompts the question: "Who stands to gain by focusing scarce tax resources on those projects with smaller economic and congestion benefit?

    As the benefits of a HUGE tax increase are laid out against common logic and self-interested parties---I will be voting AGAINST TSPLOST.

    1. There is a project scheduled to widen Abbotts Bridge over the river. That should help with east west movement. I wish they would have raised gas taxes by a full quarter and ask drivers to pay for their own roads. We were paying $4 a gallon about ten years ago and did just fine. Now we are complaining over once again a few pennies when gas is $2 a gallon. Like another person posted....who are these people who think such small amounts are huge? That billion dollar tax increase amounts to about $5 a month for someone who purchases 20 gallons of gas per week. How is that even noticeable? These projects take time you can't expect in three years for things to magically get built. So many things prior to construction have to occur. such as right of way acquisition etc that we can't see.

  6. If our government was truly for congestion relief, they would synchronize the lights properly and stop with the additional high density that no one wants except for our illustrious mayor bodker.

    If our government wanted to move cars and improve road capacity, they would widened the on ramp to 2 or even 3 lanes south 141 toward 285.

    Simply projects, big bang and yet all they want is more money.

  7. Please remember according to the IGA group's own numbers who put the ballot proposal together, the TSPLOST only uses approximately 36 percent of the money for congestions relief and road construction projects. The rest (about 64 percent) goes to items that should already be funded out of each cities general fund for which we have already paid taxes. Johns Creek citizens according to a current council member will pay approximately $600 per household per year on this new tax which works out to about 20.4 million dollars annually from Johns Creek citizens. The city of Johns Creek expects to receive approximately 16.5 million dollars a year in TSPLOST revenue. In other words Johns Creek citizens are again being asked to redistribute their hard earned dollars again to South Fulton! I thought we became a city in order to keep the taxes we pay local not shipped off to some other part of the county. Vote NO on TSPLOST!!

  8. Why are people soooo afraid to post comments with their real name? What are they afraid of? That someone may come and TP their trees?


    That's what the government officials hope you do. But that is not chump change is it? More than $589 million from Fulton County Taxpayers over 5 years.

    After tax dollars to boot. They should have raised it by raising property taxes, allowing us to pay with pre tax dollars. But it's your money they would be saving, and frankly, they could care less about that.

    Retain local control. Vote NO on TSPLOST, and then demand your City do it the proper way.

    They are going to spend the money. Make sure they collect it in the best manner possible for YOUR benefit, and not theirs.

  10. We already voted NO for the bond and NO on T-SPLOST. This government will not get my family's support for anything until they reign in their wasteful spending, sloppy management, less than average consultants and contractors, and gutless leadership.

  11. After living in Gwinnett for 2 decades and watching this same theme occur - "WE NEED ROADS FOR CONGESTION RELIEF" and then, the good roads caused uncontrolled growth, and lo and behold, the congestion was worse, I don't want to fall into that trap again. You'll regret it, and that extra nearly 1% in taxes, watch either how it sticks because we're "used to it", or how vendors don't like the partial penny and want to raise it even more to 1%. It's coming!!

    Vote NO on TSPLOST.

  12. So, I have just received another mailer from the city with the information on TSPLOST and the park bond. Has anyone else wondered where in the budget the city was able to obtain the money for this marketing. If you have seen what Johns Creek candidates have been spending on campaigns over the last several years you can compare that to what the city has probably spent on this campaign. I think it is safe to assume the city has spent a minimum of 40 thousand dollars on just the mailers and signs alone. This does not even include staff time and city resources devoted to this as opposed to other projects that need attention in our city. It is apparent to me the city is not objective in this matter and is spending JC residents tax dollars on something other than city business. Just another reason why I am voting NO ON TSPLOST.

  13. We need a City Government that puts the residents first. Not the Tax Dollars first.

    First vote NO on TSPLOST.
    Then vote for new management in 2017.

    Too many folks on this council who are hellbent on squeezing as much juice from us as we can yield.

    My household is tired of being squeezed.

    1. JC City Council did not initiate TSPLOST. This is a Fulton County ballot. If JC refused to participate and the TSPLOST passed, we would still see the .75% increase without receiving our pro rated portion based on population. We have no choice but to participate since we will pay the increased tax if it passes.

      1. Mayor Bodker led the effort at the capital to push the TSPLOST law. When addressed publicly by 3 Johns Creek council members, 4 council members gave in to the bullying tactics if a municipality didn't participate, then the city would be taxed if approved but not receive the money. This is EXTORTION!!! And only 3 folks stood up to this throughout the newly established Fulton County taxing district. Our representatives had a choice!!! Especially since all campaigned on no additional taxes.

        When is enough, enough....

  14. JC's elected officials are not true conservatives. They use the conservative label as a punch line during election time. They are a bunch of impostors. NO new taxes! NO on the park bond and NO on T-SPLOST!

    1. I agree the officials are not true conservatives, but it looks like many of the residents are not conservatives either. Sure, they might claim they are, but if you read some of the comments on how they describe this as some massive tax hike just shows they are not conservatives. This hike is less than one half of one percent of income. It's just rounding error. A true conservative would not find that to be a high amount. A true conservative who practices capitalism would be saving 25% of their income like many Indians, Koreans and Jews do. It's one thing to oppose the tax due to the funds being unevenly sent back to the local cities or to oppose the tax because it does not solve congestion relief to the level we need.....but many are not opposed to it for those reasons They act like this tiny amount cannot be absorbed by citizens. They act like it's Armageddon. A true conservative should be laughing their way to the bank. The officials simply represent the community....they are RINOs.

      1. True conservatives understand that taxation is theft and that the government does not have the right to take my money by force. At what point would you say stop taking your earnings? If we all started being honest about this specific question, the dialog could move forward. But is easy when you aren't at your cap and you have the ability to take from others...what number is your maximum?

        1. I do not view my taxes as theft, since I would not be able to replicate the services I receive from the taxes I pay. I could not even pave my own driveway for what I pay in fuel taxes or TSPLOST increases, yet I get access to the nations roadways. I would not be able to afford an unarmed security guard with the Federal taxes I pay each year, but I get protection from the army, navy, air force, coast guard and marines. Sure if I paid millions in taxes like the guys at the top, I would be at the losing end, but I have a low six figure salary and I feel I am getting a good value for what I pay in relation to what I receive. I also practice fiscal responsibility - both my wife and I max out our 401k plans (18k each) and only buy properties than we can pay off with 15 year mortgages.

          To answer your question.....what is my maximum ? I don't know, since they guys paying the big taxes aren't complaining and I am not one of them. I have never heard of anyone refusing a job over too much income (taxes). Even the Wells Fargo CEO had no problem taking millions and millions that he could have given back if he wanted to save on taxes.

          1. "In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."


            If you support it, you would not view it as theft by definition.

            If you are opposed to it, then by definition it is theft.

          2. “When the people find that they can vote themselves money,
            that will herald the end of the republic.”
            - Benjamin Franklin

            I am okay with you paying more because you are not at your cap. But I am at mine - why is it okay for me to forced? I leave you with one final quote from Benjamin Franklin -
            "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

  15. Why did JC's government waste $20 million to buy the Cauley Creek facility and propose to spend additional taxpayer's dollars to develop a park that's adjacent to a turd facility? In addition, JC's government bought the land from Ron Greene and this guy has a checkered past. Greene pitched this land deal scheme to Fulton and Forsyth County, and they ran away fast. JC's government fell for Greene's head fake and took the bait. JC's government is either totally incompetent or other people than Greene got paid. These funds could have been used to expand and/or upgrade our existing parks, among other things. No on the park bond.

  16. Our local delegation pushed legislation to create JC. They and the taxpayers now own this vessel, and I'm sick and tired of hearing our elected officials blaming others for their responsibility to govern JC accordingly. Stop blaming Fulton county, neighboring counties, developers, and GADOT, among other things when JC's taxpayers voice their concerns. Take a stand and govern JC is a fiscally conservative manner. Put an end to your self-serving backroom deals, poor judgment, and rudderless leadership. Otherwise, the voters will put an end to this during election time. A movement is underway, so you better wake up fast and kick our community into the right gear!

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